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Talk:Weepers/@comment-149.159.125.109-20121012163318/@comment-75.36.167.117-20121015064609
Sorry for the delay, but I decided to hold off until you replied before addressing your prior post. I'll start with your first unanswered one and go down. 2. I disagree that that was the main point. It wasn't so much that bombs don't equal nails as much as how comparable (if at all) are the mindsets of the malicious Weepers and those under such intense indoctrination (like Japanese kamikazes in WWII or more modern suicide bombers). That being said, while one's obviously more dangerous than the other both can still kill or horribly injure you (as the Weepers can show you in game if you let them). 3. I agree that the rats on the whole seem to be the bigger danger, and I considered the issue of the dead Weepers being used as food for the rats. That being said, do we know if Weeper corpses are attacked by rats? We know that while the Weepers are alive they certainly don't go after them for some reason, so does that protection wear off after death or not? Also, assuming it doesn't, from what we see of mass Rat attacks like Devouring Swarm, they just chew through a corpse and leave nothing in the span of a few seconds. That'd certainly help the rats in the group that does it, but it'd just be one meal and the rats that got lucky still would have a bunch of other factors involved that'd act against population growth. At worst, it'd be counterproductive because you help the rats reproduce and survive but I doubt it'd be catastrophically so, and at least you can eliminate the Weepers that are actively seeking to harm people (such as it is given their limited mental state) which'd also be giving the rats food. Agreed about the debate. Gotta love the chance to stretch your muscles... On the whole, I'd agree about there being a difference on the decision-making level between the Weepers and suicide attackers like Mohammad Atta or the Japanese Kamikazes etc. al. However, at the very least they seem to be capable of some sentience and decision making, as we see with The Heart, and that tells me what whatever we're dealing with in the Weepers, at least some of them aren't entirely blameless for their actions (since it is saying they're *deciding* to spread the plague to as many as possible before they die). Theoretically, it's possible the Weepers are possessed but I'd think that the Heart would at least hint about that and to the best of my knowledge they don't have any other evidence of being like that. I think you might've misunderstood me. I wasn't demanding you stop the debate, not at all (it's quite enjoyable really). I was just digging my heels in and replying that what (I thought) you were saying (excusing the mentally disturbed of any responsibility for their actions *and* underplaying how indoctrination can undercut peoples' agency) was offensive in real life. From where I stood at the time, that sounded tantamount to excusing the malicious mentally impaired (unfortunately, there are a few that are diagnosed as that) for the crimes they commit and simultaneously underplaying the level at which indoctrination can harm. If that wasn't what you intended, again my apologies; that was just what it *looked* like you were saying to me. I have no problem continuing on with a debate on here and I have no problems hearing your arguments or anyone else's unless they cross a certain line. Again, to me it sounded like making apologies for this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ga%C3%ABtan_Dugas. I just tend to get up in arms if I detect stuff like that. Assuming that anyone even knew Corvo did it? Sure, that's kosher. My main issue is that most people wouldn't know something like that, particularly not in hindsight and particularly not out of the Golden/Low Chaos ending where they actually do cure them; the others would just notice a lack of semi-zombies "trying" to infect people and some slacking off on the plague. And that's what the Chaos system seems to be trying to measure according to Word of God: the breakdown of Dunwall (rather than Corvo) under all the different kinds of things (not just the plague) and how people react. The Weepers are already in the street, some of them at least self-aware and malicious enough to want to infect more people and spread the Plague. Law and Order can only be maintained using a totalitarian, murdering system (and one that's largely corrupt at the top and trying to spread the plague anyway) that is *Butchering* its' people in cold blood. It's pretty much impossible that Corvo killing off Weepers can set a worse example than the regime's mooks in the intro trailer did when they massacred protestors for zero reason and with zero provocation. At the very least dealing with the Weepers and killing some of the bajillions of rats could slow the spread of the plague and buy time for a more permanent solution, and in extreme cases might even make reclaiming a city block for human life and making the Lord Regen's regime that much less justified and necessary. That, and if the system of the game were accommodated for it, since if managed properly (to prevent the Plague) it would help loosen the grip of the Lord Regents' lawless and merciless order and possibly allow for something better. The chaos in Moscow after the attempted Soviet Coup against Gorbachev comes to mind.